Ado.Net Entity Framework Vote of no confidence ??
Tuesday, June 24, 2008
**RANT**
http://efvote.wufoo.com/forms/ado-net-entity-framework-vote-of-no-confidence/
So I read Tim Mallalieu's blog he is on my RSS feed one of few select people I track and trace. (Tim if you read this I am not a stalker honest, I just think you post are cool and informative)
http://blogs.msdn.com/timmall/archive/2008/06/24/vote-of-no-confidence.aspx
So I read the following post, and fell off my chair, somebody has gone to the effort of actually putting togther a ADO.NET Entity Framework Vote of no confidence. Now forget the techie part lets just look a the practical, because obivously I am missing something. Surely and strike me down with a feather duster that if you don't like the Entity Framework ....You just don't use it ooooorrr, even better and maybe a more postive thing than moaning about a product write you own, develop an open source alternative, dare I say it... use something else.
It is really easy to sit on the side line and snip about a framework that does not fit your needs or you believe is wrong, but come on now give the guys and girls who have slaved over the Entity framework a break constructive critisim fine and in the post above they have made some (fair enough) but to finish it with please make a vote of no confidence is not exactly nice and in just is in my view rude. Yes I suppose you have got the attention of the team.. but surely there is a better way, how to motive a team to your ideas.
I personally don't use Entity Framework or Linq SQL (I have tried) but I am big fan of LLBGEN Pro, it works, it's solid and fits my clients and my needs. I made a choice, not bashed a team that was trying to build a very complex product. Have some respect please don't sign a petition just give sensible feedback through normal challenge.. or dare I say don't use it....
**END RANT**
Apologies for the Rant. Good luck to the Entity Framework team, please look at some of the criticims leveled it is correct, but I am sure you would review it just like Classic ASP is better than ASP.NET v1 and ASP.NET 2 is better than ASP.NET v1. It will be a process of learning, would love to see how many developers get frameworks out of the box correct. I will admit I don't always do, that is the part of being human, my first Sage Framework in C# sucked my revision at the moment does not..
I am missing something do we need vote of no confidence.. No, just MS to be listening which I hope they are, and for sensible suggestions in a reasonable manner.
Labels: ADO.NET, Entity Framework
posted by James Knowles at
9:38 PM
3 Comments:
James,
I'm one of the authors of the letter.
I have used the Entity Framework on a project. I've used other frameworks as well both open source and commercial, and I've developed my own.
The authors of the letter, and a number of the signatories have been giving the team feedback since March of 2007. We've met three times in-person, and we've had a number of communications in text media.
The purpose for the Vote of No Confidence is to express concern for the framework's problems, call attention to insular nature of the team, and to advise customers to consider alternatives when opting for an entity-oriented data access framework rather than jump at such an immature product.
My personal observation about the Entity Framework is that is causes increased waste and increased cost due the EF team having ignored much of what the community has learned over the years building entity applications on .NET.
I appreciate all the work that the EF team has put into the framework, but this framework will likely be adopted by quite a number of companies because it is carried by the momentum of the Microsoft brand rather than its own technical merit.
No one gets points for simply doing hard work. There's a lot at stake here for Microsoft customers who don't know any better and who simply choose Microsoft because of the logo, not having sufficient background in entity applications to make an informed evaluation.
After a year of go-round with the EF team, I, and others on the list of signatories, now feel a personal responsibility as participants in the Microsoft customer community to express our concerns publicly.
June 25, 2008 6:19 AM
Hi Scott, thanks for the reply. I can understand your frustration and can at least see why you have go down that road. I still don't necessaryly agree with the approach. I wish you the best though in actually getting the change you want through I respect the fact that what you are asking for is the right way forward.
If you ever come to London I will buy you a beer and maybe we can scheme a plan to tie up the Program manager and ranson him back to MS for change... Hmm maybe you aproach is a better one. ;-)
June 27, 2008 12:51 PM
Hi Scott, thanks for the reply. I can understand your frustration and can at least see why you have gone down that road. I still don't necessaryly agree with the approach. I wish you the best though in actually getting the change you want through I respect the fact that what you are asking for is the right way forward.
If you ever come to London I will buy you a beer and maybe we can scheme a plan to tie up the Program manager and ranson him back to MS for change... Hmm maybe your aproach is a better one. ;-)
June 27, 2008 1:08 PM
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